Selezione controllata del Pinscher.Proposte

[onlypinscher]

Questa mia discussione vuole aprire un confronto tra possessori e allevatori di Pinscher Tedeschi,ma vale anche per lo zwergpinscher.
PRECISO CHE QUESTO E' UN MIO PUNTO DI VISTA PERSONALE,QUINDI NON ASSOLUTO,RIVOLTO AGLI ALLEVATORI DELLE 2 RAZZE;DICIAMO CHE SONO MIE RIFLESSIONI,PER CONTROLLARE E SELEZIONARE SOGGETTI CHE POSSANO DARE MENO SORPRESE POSSIBILI.
MI PIACEREBBE AVERE CRITICHE COSTRUTTIVE E/O OPINIONI AL RIGUARDO,VISTO CHE E' UN DISCORSO CHE VORREI PORTARE AVANTI....PER EVITARE TROPPO IMBREEDING NELL'ALLEVAMENTO,CHE,A LUNGO ANDARE,POSSONO PRODURRE EFFETTI DISASTROSI SULLE RAZZE.

Ritengo fondamentali 4 esami
1)HD test(penso che qui nessuno abbia nulla da eccepire).
2)OCULOPATIA,per evidenziare se qualche soggetto e' affetto da cataratta(guardate che sono molti i cani,non solo in italia,che ne sono affetti.
3)DNA TEST per malattia di vWD e test per la diluizione del colore.
(se non sbaglio esistono molti problemi riguardo a mancanza di uno o piu' P1).

La malattia di VW tipo si caratterizza per 1deficienza quantitativa parziale di vWF (<50% ma normalmente <20%) con normale struttura multimerica.
E' abbastanza difficile da diagnosticare con le tradizionali analisi di laboratorio mentre il test genetico fornisce un risultato inequivocabile soprattutto nell'identificazione dei soggetti CARRIER che possono avere da un punto di vista clinico analisi di laboratorio praticamente normali ma trasmettere alla discendenza l'allele di malattia.


Occhi e cataratta ereditaria sono controllate da medici oftalmologi dell'ACVO
I test genetici per Von Willebrand tipo I e diluizione del colore si possono fare anche in laboratori autorizzati Enci.
Io ad esempio mi trovo bene con la Genefast di Castelnuovo Rangone(mo).

Inoltre si sta riscontrando in alcuni soggetti(America per esempio-in Italia non si ha ancora casistica,per mancanza di esami)particolari reazioni a vaccini fatti ai ns amici a 4 zampe.

Vi allego(purtroppo e' in inglese,ma,se avro' tempo li tradurro')alcuni report provenienti dall'estero,che spiegano e mettono al riparo l'allevatore da rischi non previsti,evitando di fare accoppiamenti spannometrici.

PER LA CATARATTA E PROBLEMI AGLI OCCHI:
CATARACTS and EYE PROBLEMS:
Here is e brief background of inherited cataracts and the screening tests which are recommended.
Hereditary Cataracts (HC)

These are found within the breed throughout the world, and is a condition not specific to German Pinschers. In European countries where testing is mandatory, HC appear broadly within the breed and it can be assumed that it's frequency is no less common in a less tested population. To really know the total impact on our breed, testing of breeding pairs is strongly encouraged. The Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF) is an organization, dedicated to canine eye health. They have a network of Certified Ophthalmologists who perform a standardized examination, and maintain a database of the results. If your dog is not afflicted with Hereditary Cataracts, or other serious inherited eye disorders, a number is issued to "certify" that your dog is clear of inherited eye disease. Since many eye conditions are an evolving problem, these exams are only valid for one year. Breeding animals, are recommended that a current exam is done on each parent of all litters produced, and thereafter every few years as these dogs age, since some HC will not develop until after the age of five or six years. We provide a copy of the exam sheet, and how to read it here. Again, this does not guarantee that your dog will not develop cataracts, but finding parents and grandparents free of this condition certainly will give an indication of the potential for these to develop. Here is the 2005 ACVO report for the German Pinscher, compliments of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists (ACVO).

All dogs chosen for breeding should have a current CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation) examination, and be certified by CERF as to not being affected with inherent eye disease. The bluish eye tints of some elderly German Pinschers are not cataracts; it is normal aging of the eye lenses. Cataracts can cause blindness quickly, can cause blindness slowly, or not cause it at all. Some cataracts do not significantly impair vision nor ever progress. Cataracts can appear in different locations on one or both eyes. Surgical correction of cataracts is best done before cataracts become mature. This makes annual CERF exams especially important.
NOTE: Please make sure that dogs you intend to breed are tested.
ALERT: If your dog has been tested for CERF, do not forget to send in your completed form (directions are on it). Your dog will not be certified if you do not do this. The form allows you to designate whether you wish to make the results public knowledge or not. Given an OK for results to be made public, certified dogs will be automatically posted to OFA (no extra charge).
How to read an Eye Exam Report

CERF or Canine Eye Registration Foundation
CERF Report for 1998-2004
CERF Results for 2005

PER PROBLEMI RIGUARDO ALLA RICERCA DI MALATTIE EREDITARIE E CMQ DI DISORDINI NEL SANGUE(DNA)
Blood Disorders
von WILLEBRAND’S DISEASE TYPE 1
Von Willebrand's disease (vWD) is the most common inherited bleeding disorder of animals and man. The most frequent symptom of vWD is prolonged bleeding. Dogs may require transfusions. Many dogs never develop severe problems.
We have no documentation that indicates that any German Pinschers has tested "affected." The testing results from Laboklin and VetGen in October, 2008 indicate the following:
Laboklin
<BR< font <>Tested 251 German Pinschers 210 clear 41 carriers 0 affected 16% carrier *
VetGen
Tested 165 German Pinschers 135 clear 30 carriers 0 affected 18% carrier*
*<BR< font <>Figures June,2009

Testing may be done with blood tests (ELISA) or DNA swabs (VetGen). Elisa blood testing sometimes will return flawed results. DNA testing is less intrusive, more exact and done only once.
*The following from VetGen Breeding Strategies
*Interpreting Your DNA Test Results for Autosomal Recessive Diseases

There are three possible test results: Clear, Carrier, and Affected. Below is a description of what each result means to you as a breeder.
Clear
This finding indicates that the gene is not present in your dog. Therefore, when used for breeding, a Clear dog will not pass on the disease gene.
Carrier
This finding indicates that one copy of the disease gene is present in your dog, but that it will not exhibit disease symptoms. Carriers will not have medical problems as a result. Dogs with Carrier status can be enjoyed without the fear of developing medical problems but will pass on the disease gene 50% of the time.
Affected
This finding indicates that two copies of the disease gene are present in the dog. Unfortunately, the dog will be medically affected by the disease. Appropriate treatment should be pursued by consulting a veterinarian.
Affected (In the case of vWD Type l**)
This finding indicates that two copies of the disease gene are present in the dog. These dogs always have a potential to bleed given the right circumstance and will always pass on the disease gene (mutation) to their progeny. Please see the following page, for more detailed information. vWD Report Also, inform your veterinarian and consult with him/her regarding this test result.

** In the case of Type l vWD - All puppies will be genetically Affected (see "Notes" below).

Helpful Canine Breeding Chart

The chart provided below outlines the implications of various breeding pair combinations. Remember, it is always best to breed "Clear to Clear". If followed by all breeders, these strategies will ensure a significant reduction in the frequency of the targeted disease gene in future generations of dogs. However, to maintain a large enough pool of good breeding stock, it may be necessary for some breeders to breed "Clear" to "Carriers" (see below).

Clear Male Carrier Male Affected Male
Clear Female 100% Clear 50/50 Carrier/Clear 100% Carrier
Carrier Female 50/50 Carrier/Clear 25/50/25 Clr./Carr./Affctd. 50/50 Carrier/Affected
Affected Female 100% Carrier 50/50 Carrier/Affected 100% Affected

Ideal Breeding Pair - Puppies will not have the disease gene (neither as Carrier nor as Affected).

Breeding Is Safe - No Affected puppies will be produced. However, some or all puppies will be Carriers. Accordingly, it is recommended that Carrier dogs which are desirable for breeding be bred with Clear dogs in the future, which will produce 50% carrier and 50% clear animals, to further reduce the disease gene frequency. These offspring should be tested by VetGen's test for this defective gene, and if possible, only the clear animals in this generation should be used.
High Risk Breeding - Some puppies are likely to be Carriers and some puppies are likely to be Affected. Even though it is possible that there will be some clear puppies when breeding "Carrier to Carrier", in general, neither this type of breeding pair nor "Carrier to Affected" are recommended for breeding.
Breeding Not Recommended - All puppies will be genetically and medically affected *
*From VetGen Breeding Strategies

NOTE: We urge all German Pinscher breeders to get their breeding stock tested to help control the spread of this disease. We have the opportunity to eliminate vWD in German Pinschers.


PER REAZIONI AI VACCINI:
Notice to
German Pinscher breeders and puppy owners
In 2008 and beginning of 2009, several cases of post vaccine reactions have been reported in the
USA, with the death of one of the puppies.
This uncommon delayed allergic reaction is not easily recognized by owners, or diagnosed by
their vets.
The Health Committee recommends reading this case study below, and all German Pinscher
puppies monitored for symptoms within the time period stated. If symptoms occur, please print a
copy of this study and take to your vet with the puppy showing symptoms. This is a delayed
reaction, and making the connection with a vaccine administration is not always recognized.
Monitoring the puppy for 12 days is recommended for safety, symptoms can occur up to between
nine and twelve days after vaccination.
The HC will follow with a questionnaire in the near future, to attempt to gain more information on
these reactions.
Post-vaccinal reactions in German Pinschers –preliminary report
Minna Leppänen
minna.leppanen@orionpharma.com
DVM Ph.D.
Specialist Diploma in Small Animal Medicine and Surgery
Since early 1980s breeders and puppy owners have noticed unexpectedly high number of postvaccinal complications
within the breed. The only published information of the syndrome is the work of Hillgen and Koivisto (1996) that was
based on the information collected by the breed club in Finland. The rest of the knowledge is based on the author's
unpublished data of own cases and information I have collected from other veterinarians, breeders and dog-owners. In
Hillgen and Koivisto=s (1996) survey 33.2 % of owners reported that puppies had symptoms after distemper-vaccination
in Finland. Some annual variation has been noticed. In Great Britain some breeders estimate that about 50% of all
puppies show similar symptoms (Morrison D., personal communication); cases have been reported also in Sweden,
Norway and Denmark (Kuisma I and. Nilsson, S., personal communication). Recently I found descriptions of some
American dogs having similar symptoms in German Pinscher fanciers= internet mailing list. Typical symptoms start
usually 9-12 days after vaccinations and may include tiredness, fever, occasionally vomiting and eye discharge. These
primary symptoms usually start 1-2 days before neurological signs. Severity of neurological signs has been variable.
Some dogs have had only mild tremors, but in severe cases dogs various degrees of ataxia (=disturbances in equilibrium)
and seizures have been noticed. In all known cases the symptoms developed after distemper-vaccination and usually
after the first vaccination (the vaccination given when the puppy is 12 weeks old as is the routine in Finland). No
correlation between the vaccine types and brands with the incidence or severity of the symptoms could be shown (Hillgen
and Koivisto, 1996).
Of all known cases one dog was euthanized with suspected diagnosis of epilepsy without any treatment. No postmortem
is available. Another dog died three days after the seizures begun. The most prominent postmortem finding was acute,
allergic encephalomyelitis (=brain inflammation) No distemper inclusions or distemper virus could be shown. Laboratory
findings from other cases have been unremarkable: the only finding has been mild leucocytosis (=elevated white blood
cells) in some dogs. (Hillgen and Koivisto, 1996; Leppänen, unpublished data
The therapy has been based on the presumption of allergic background. Most cases have been treated with various
doses, types and routes of administration of corticosteroids. Breeders even advise puppy-owners to give a dog small
doses of oral hydrocortisone (available prescription free) as soon as they notice any symptoms. In addition to
corticosteroids some dogs have got seizure medication (mostly diazepam or phenobarbital) and in some also sedatives
have been administered to dogs with serious seizures. Also, vitamin B-supplementation or antibiotics have been used as
well as antiemetics for vomiting dogs. Some cases got no medication. Excluded the two above mentioned cases all dogs
have recovered totally in 1-5 days and none is known to have similar symptoms after next vaccinations (Hillgen and
Koivisto, 1996; Leppänen unpublished data).
Until now no exact pathogenesis and etiology of post-vaccinal complications in German Pinschers have been found; also
reports of cases and effects of treatment trials base mostly on personal experience with own patients or information
reached from breeders or other veterinarians who have treated the cases. It is assumed that due a very small population
and high degree of inbreeding the German Pinscher breed has some type of immunological defect, which makes the dogs
unusually sensitive to distemper vaccines. The presumption of familiar disorder is supported by the finding that dogs that
have had symptoms themselves more commonly produce puppies with symptoms than unsymptomatic animals. It is
however possible that unsymptomatic dogs have puppies who react after vaccination. The exact mode of heritability is
however unclear. Controversially the breed is otherwise very healthy and no reports or experience of other common
immunological problems could be found. Also, it is unclear, why these dogs recover so well unlike in other reported breedspecific
or suspected immune-mediated encephalitis (Oliver et al., 1997, Vandevelde, 1998).
Because we do not know the exact pathogenesis the treatment was based partly on clinical findings and previous
experience with these cases. In order to prevent complications caused by lengthened seizure activity the treatment and
doses normally recommended for status epilepticus were used. The use of corticosteroids in these cases is based on
assumption that we deal with allergic reactions. No recommendations of exact doses have been made. The cases the
author has knowledge about have been treated with various types and doses; I personally prefer short-acting
corticosteroids and low doses in order to prevent possible side effects from corticosteroids. It might be also possible that
mild cases can recover without treatment: this is supported with the information from owners who tell that their dogs have
had symptoms, but got no treatment. Also, some owners probably do not regocnize mild symptoms at all. On the other
hand the possibility of preventing seizures or minimizing morbidity with early corticosteroid-administration has been
discussed. Unfortunately we lack any controlled studies from the effectiveness and usefulness of different treatment
regimens.
References:
Hillgen J., Koivisto M.: Vaccinations and postvaccinal complications in dogs. Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Helsinki 1996, 47 pages
Oliver JE, Lorenz MD, Kornegay JN: Handbook of Veterinary Neurology. W.B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia, 1997,
453 pp
Vandevelde M.:Neurologic diseases of suspected infectious origin. In Infectious diseases of the dog and cat. Ed.
Greene CE W.B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia 1998, pp530-540


DNA TEST
Von Willerbrand (vWD) is a DNA test.

There is some few dogs that have been found sick in this blood disease. Many carriers have been found also.

If two carriers breed there will be sick puppies. A carrier can have puppies but must be bred to a known non carrier.

So with this test you can found CARRIER , AFFECTED and CLEAR. The best result is of course CLEAR. Some information about vWD



I think that tests to applicate for German Pinschers is HD and Eye examination ( DOK http://www.deutsche-pinscher-augenin...ecvo_bogen.htm) and recommend vWD and dilute color test. For Zwergpinscher the eye examination is also very important.

[onlypinscher]

Che strano!
Pensavo che qcuno avesse il coraggio di dare qualche suggerimento in merito....vedo che il msg e' stato letto,ma nessuno commenta.
Eppure mi pare ci si lamenti di problemi di mancanza di denti abbastanza diffusi,di altezze al garrese non omogenee,di sicurezza nella selezione dei riproduttori......
Boh....si vede che tutti si lamentano ma nessuno ha il coraggio,oltre a me,di lanciare un'altra pietra,in favore della tutela della razza pinscher,ma sopratutto della razza ZWERGPINSCHER,che mi pare di aver capito in uno degli ultimi incontri abbia ben piu' importanti problemi del pinscher.
Mi trovo cmq d'accordo con una amica di perugia.La penso come lei.
Ciao Francesca!

[Monduz]

Ciao Annalisa.
Mi sento obbligato a risponderti.Conosci bene le mie posizioni in merito alle problematiche che hai sollevato,come sai ero presente agli incontri che citi,e ho espresso le mie posizioni in modo preciso.
Alcuni mesi fà avrei partecipato a questa discussione,in questa sede, in modo attivo.
Oggi ritengo che non sia utile discuterne in questa sede,in quanto risulterebbe che nessuno ha cani coi problemi da te citati,quindi,il problema pur esistendo in realtà non esiste perchè negato da tutti.
Sono sempre disponibile a parlare dei problemi degli zwergpinscher e del pinscher Tedesco,ma solo nelle sedi opportune.

In questo mondo,almeno in quello che porta i cani in expò,i problemi propri si nascondono con tutti i mezzi,mentre quelli degli altri si ssbandierano ai quattro venti,non tanto per il bene della razza,ma soprattutto per danneggiare gli altri.

L'unica cosa che posso dire,è che mi auguro che il club Italiano schnauzer e pinscher riesca a fare approvare dall'Enci l'obbligo della selezione per il campionato Italiano.Io i miei cani li selezionerò tutti,non temo un B in morfologia e un B in caratteriale,(L'ho già preso) vedremo quanti espositori porteranno i loro cani in selezioni.Visto che hanno tutti cani perfetti dovrebbero portarli tutti,però ne dubito.

Mi auguro che tu riesca a far vivere questa discussione.

spero di vederti presto.

Buone feste a tutti cani e umani.

ciao

[onlypinscher]

COMPLETAMENTE D'ACCORDO!!!!!!!!!!!
NULLA DA ECCEPIRE!!!!!
E,COME AL SOLITO,SEI L'UNICO CHE HA SCRITTO IL VERO,NON TEMENDO NESSUNO!!!!!
TI FACCIO I MIEI COMPLIMENTI PER L'ONESTA' E LA CHIAREZZA DEL CONCETTO!!!!!!!
ANNALISA